PrimerMovie.com

[pol]

Hey,

I think I finally got it!! I plotted a solution with which I’m satisfied. Thanks to everyone who posted their ideas. I read a lot of stuff, here and on other forums, that helped me to figure it out. On this forum, a special thanks to Psykomakia, from who most of my solution is inspired.

I haven’t re-watched the movie, to ensure everything fits, but I think it does. I have the drawing of the timelines on an Excel sheet, but I don’t know how to post it. Can anyone help me with this?

This solution finally answers the 3 questions I haven’t been able to answer properly up to now:

1- Why doesn’t Aaron remember the second time he went to the party? Sometime after Abe failsafes to the beginning, they plan to go together to the party, but Aaron only remembers the first time he went (he didn’t actually live the second occurrence). He has to relate on what Robert told Abe in another timeline.

2- Is it possible to have both Abe and Aaron “failsafing” after the Granger event? If they don’t turn off and enter the boxes at the exact same time (using the same timer), doesn’t the first one to go back “invalidate” the actual timeline? The timeline having never existed, it’s impossible for the other guy to enter the box, even if it’s just a few seconds later. This event just doesn’t occur. Now, let’s assume it’s possible, and that Aaron failsafes to the beginning after the Granger event (to remain in control, because he know Abe is going to do the same, but will arrive a little later). Then, in the Park, Aaron knows he will meet a “failsafed” Abe. They would need to have a serious discussion, and there is no point for Aaron to repeat the recording and pretend he is there for the first time.

>> Both these questions have the exact same answer: Aaron doesn’t use his failsafe machine after Granger episode. Only Abe does. Aaron had used the failsafe before, and is then interrupted in his second attempt to fix the party, because Abe is a “failsafed” one, which is not expected.

3- How does the narrator know about Granger episode, Abe’s use of failsafe, and the party at which Abe and Aaron went together? If it’s the hooded Aaron who is the narrator, he shouldn't know about all this.

>> This is simply because Hooded Aaron is not the narrator. We all thought he was, because he doesn’t know how many iterations it took to Aaron and Abe to perfect the party. But, somehow, he knows everything else. So, is it possible that the narrator is in fact another double, created during one of the iterations for “perfecting” the party? Remember what he says when commenting the party: he doesn’t know how many times they had to repeat it, but he believes that only one MORE would have been enough. Does it mean that he knows (witnessed or experienced) that Abe and Aaron went to the party together at least once, but they needed at least one more iteration?


While I’m here, I’ll also throw in an idea about why Granger gradually falls into coma. This is purely speculations. I’m trying to explain the unexplainable (because, as we all know, the answer can’t be known…)

>> Abe is the one causing Granger to fall into coma. The more Abe is in contact with Granger, the more he decides to use his failsafe. The more it becomes obvious and unavoidable that Abe is gonna failsafe to the beginning, the more Granger becomes vegetative. Abe is about to erase this timeline, and replace it with another one, in which there is no double of Granger. Note that Aaron also is a double of himself, but both “copies” are already there before Abe’s failsafe machine is started (which is in fact one of the machines Aaron had taken back). So, Abe cannot prevent Aaron’s doubling.

Okay, that’s all for now.

Please give me your comments.

[vode]

Pol

Everything you said, before the bit about Hooded Aaron not being the narrator, sounded good to me.

[pol]

Damn, you're right.

I didn't think about this sentence, when Hooded Aaron had a fight with the other one.

Okay then, I'll have to review everything...

Thanks.

[Primer MOnkey]

[pol]

Well, it's just an idea of what could happen in a timeline which is going to be erased. All the events specific to this timeline would then never have happened. But what happens to the people while they are still "living it"?
This hypothesis is that every "double" which will not be there in the reality (replacement timeline) stops interracting with the world (falling into coma!!). But how could we know that the actual timeline is going to be erased? The only way, it that it becomes CERTAIN that someone will change it. When someone has decided, for sure, to overwrite the actual timeline, then it becomes obvious that the reality will be different. In fact, the more certain it is, the more we can say that the reality IS different, it just hasn't been acted yet. In this case, it is Abe who decides to change the reality, using his failsafe, and he decides it when he sees Granger's double. At the very beginning, he might still be hesitant, but as time goes, he becomes sure he will do it, an he really will. So, the reality is already dictated to be different. It just has to be acted now (only for Abe, because for everyone else, there will be only one version, in which there is no double of Granger).
However, this is assuming that a "timeline-to-be-erased" only affect the "non-existing-doubles". Because in fact, the reality will be different for everyone but Abe. But Aaron doesn't seem to be affected at all.

Anyways, I'm just having some fun with it. I consider that to fully understand the Granger incident is not only irrelevant, but it's also impossible.

Regarding my idea of the narrator being another double, creating to perfect the part scnene, I agree that it doesn't make sense. As Vode pointed out, it HAS to be Hooded-Aaron. Then, I'll have to join the common idea, that Airport-Aaron at some point contacted Hooded-Aaron, and told him everything he knew. But it that's the case, why doesn't the narrator know how many iterations were necessary for the party? Two answers: 1. Airport-Aaron omitted this single point. 2. It's not Airport-Aaron who met Hooded-Aaron, but a double created for the party, who left before the final occurence. One way or the other, I don't like it. It's a little too much assumptions for which we have absolutely no indication.
Could there be a more "practical" answer to explain why the narrator knows everything? Could Shane have just missed this part? I mean, this scenario is VERY complex, and he had to do a lot of thinking in order for everything to fit. He could have missed this last little detail. Or maybe he did know, but he NEEDED a narrator, so we could understand what happens. And he just thought no one would notice this detail...

[vode]

[SpudBoy]

After reading this thread I'm going to view the DVD again.

[hal9000]

[Primer MOnkey]

aaron in the hood is the narrator. i think shane even says so in his interviews or commentary. (?)

he wrote parts of the plot to be unknowable but not that part. it is pretty ambigious though with 3 aarons running around in one scene.

[bugmenot1526]

Perhaps the commentary did indicate that hooded Aaron was the narrator, but I'd just like to point something out from a literary analysis point of view: Narrators can lie or can say things that they think are right but are actually wrong. Readers/viewers too easily assume that the narrator is the author, but narrators are just another character (not to use the word "just" in a denigrating manner). So, though the narrator says what he says, he can also be wrong, lying, insane, mistaken, etc...

manofredearth

[vode]