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Official Site of the movie Primer
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Aaron
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 26
Location: THE FUTURE, conan?
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 Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:37 am Post subject: 2 Things |
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i know things like it have been talked about... but abe saying not know what he was capable of... and the fakt that weeks or months were spent before abe had his first garage machine going along with the failsafe... what's to say he didn't have something even EARLIER made that aaron wouldn't ever know about? thus making him forever primer! but that i guess would be REALLY paranoid on his part... but he is very methodical and careful... not brash like aaron...
just seems like he did a lot of stuff over a somewhat longer period of time (i think that's right... the line overdubbed while at that pool party?) ... and aaron seems like it's all the first time thru for abe showing him all the stuff and repeating his first time through...
i have many other thoughts that kinda go with this but unlike most of you i'm just horrible at wording them to make sense and remembering the exact thoughts while i watch the movie (maybe i should record them as i watch hahah)
just saw it only for the 2nd time after months and months since the first and coming here and reading about it all... next i'll have to watch the 2 sep. commentaries then maybe the film alone again
i don't know... tho i really feel sometimes for me it's best to see a movie once and not let the magik be ruined... like with seeing donnie darko, memento, pi, and some others again... i'm weird like that i guess...
oh and the 2nd thing...
the line aaron says about "i haven't eaten anything since later this afternoon"
hahah! love that...
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Aaron
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 26
Location: THE FUTURE, conan?
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| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 6:16 am Post subject: |
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remembered something else...
the party thing
aaron 3 says what happened the time he wasn't there (how did rachel and the Xboyfriend/cousin even end up there without aaron and abe inviting them?) telling them about it.????
and saying nothing happened the time they weren't there? WHAT!
they invited them!
and the line that nothing will happen that nite from what they hear... how can they know that?
and aaron on the phone at the very end saying who knows what would happen if they didn't do anything... they already know?
and... my god... i think that's the main part where it gets too much for me...
and last thing for now i swear (i know i'm bad at this) but with the granger thing what do they mean when they say abe can't be within 2 rooms of him without going into a coma? or something of that sort...
and right before they chase after him the quick shots of abe (?) at the side of the house is that skipping ahead or showing a different one of them at the scene (i think i've heard talk of that)
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vode
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 323
Location: Hampton, UK
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| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Aaron wrote: | | weeks or months were spent before abe had his first garage machine going along with the failsafe... what's to say he didn't have something even EARLIER made that aaron wouldn't ever know about? |
I remember there was a thread about this a while back. I agree that it seems strange that Abe would go straight for a full six hours in the box as his first experiment. Isn't it more likely that he'd have been running experiments for days, or maybe even weeks, before he told Aaron about the coffins?
| Aaron wrote: | aaron 3 says what happened the time he wasn't there (how did rachel and the Xboyfriend/cousin even end up there without aaron and abe inviting them?) telling them about it.????
and saying nothing happened the time they weren't there? WHAT!
they invited them!
and the line that nothing will happen that nite from what they hear... how can they know that?
and aaron on the phone at the very end saying who knows what would happen if they didn't do anything... they already know? |
And yes, you’re right. If Aaron and Abe weren't there then neither was Rachel or her ex. The whole party gunman thing must have been created by Aaron, not just so that he could be a hero, but to let Rachel know what her ex was capable of. We can only guess at what made Aaron want to do this, but I think originally something bad happened a few days after the party and Aaron decided it was in his power to bring these events forward and then stage them in a location that worked better for him and his hero thing.
What would have happened if they didn't do anything? I don't think they can know because the timeline with the original party was "erased" when Abe used the first box on Monday. Originally Abe didn't meet Aaron at the bench, Aaron went back to work, and the party arrangements that followed might have been different. But none of this happened because Abe used the box.
They only know about three parties, or maybe Aaron just wants Abe to believe that they only know about three parties. The one on the night after Abe's first trip back, the one were Aaron 2 made the recordings and the one that Aaron 3 fixed and that was then discussed in the garage on Wednesday. Of course the last of these was erased when Abe failsafes, but he can still remember what he was told about Aaron 3 the hero. |
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foobario
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 133
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| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| vode wrote: | | If Aaron and Abe weren't there then neither was Rachel or her ex. |
I think Rachel and her ex were there every time, whether Aaron or Abe were there or not.
It really comes down to the final garage conversation, which takes place in the time between the bench scene and when Aaron talks to Will. Rachel is the one who calls; since our guys are otherwise occupied, I think it is safe to assume that she is doing the same thing on that timeline as she would have been doing on any previous timeline, including the original.
And we know Abe invited her to the failsafe-erased 3rd party ("She said she was there because you told her you would be there.")... but as far as Abe knew that was the *first* party after his trip in the box - he didn't know anything about Aaron time-traveling, he didn't know anything about the gunman, yet he invited her. In the final garage scene Abe's not trying to decide "should I tell her about the party?", he's trying to decide "should I *not* tell her about the party now that I have this new information?"
I think that in the first revision, something like this happened: Abe met Aaron at the bench. On the way back to Aaron's office, Abe got a call from Rachel and invited her to the party. Aaron found out the Ariel meeting had been delayed, told Will about it, Will was disappointed; Aaron invited Will to the party by way of recompense, and upon hearing that Will intended to hang out with his cousin flippantly said "invite him... Rachel will be there". That night there was a party whose attendees included Rachel and the ex, but did not include Aaron (who was building a box) or Abe (who was either helping Aaron or sleeping off his 36-hour day). On Wednesday Robert and Philip came to the garage and mentioned the gunman. Aaron felt guilty, since his flippant statement was the reason the ex was at the party.
Add the discovery of the failsafe into the mix, and the rest of the film pretty much falls into place. Aaron is often said to be using the failsafe to be in control (I've probably said it myself), but I think his guilt over inviting the gunman and the sense of power he gets from having the box give him plenty of motive and opportunity to failsafe and try to fix the party. Aaron doesn't want to owe anybody anything, whether that debt is one of family obligation, friendship, or a chance word misspoken. |
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Aaron
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 26
Location: THE FUTURE, conan?
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| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:27 am Post subject: |
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ah thank you that last post really does clear it up... mostly...
it's hard to figure out what really can be figured out versus the things that can't be known...
can't believe there's like 7000 people almost on this board!
primers a real hit!
watching it a second time so long after the first and reading about everything on here really made it easier to follow tho i still think some lines and things are made too unclear and just... SO MUCH happens in the last 15 or 20 minutes of the movie versus the slower (but very good) buildup of the first 40-50 minutes...
and weird... pg-13 on the back of the dvd case rated r before the movie... for BRIEF LANGUAGE... that is just insane... i can't think of barely any language... and the fact that many pg13 movies have f-words, some nudity, and hella violence... what a weird world we live in
i don't know if i approve of AARON using the word fags... and thus shane doing so! ... i'm not really PC at all but that just seemed out of place in the phone call in the hotel room scene
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CopyofaCopy
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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Since this thread is specualting.... (I like it) Here's a question for anyone out there.
Aaron went back in time twice, at least, to do one or all the things mentioned above. So... what was he going to do once he accomplished his objective? Remember, the original Aaron is the one who time travels twice to start the days over. The other two are "extra Aarons". I'm talking about the original Aaron that has traveled back twice.
Lets say for the sake of simplicity that when Aaron went back the first time, stashed his past self in the attic, he then accomplished what he came back to do. DONE What then?
Was he going to keep his other self locked up while he gets rich with Abe and then disappear with the money? Let his attic self come to and say to everyone, "what the heck happened." Maybe.
Was he going to tell everyone what he did and then convince everyone to build a bigger box? Not likely.
I can go on speculating, but you get my point. Going back to save Rachel sounds great, is great, but really, what next.
See, the "hero" theory never made sense to me because the hero Aaron would have to go away and not live on as the hero or kill his attic self in order to live on as a hero. (Or find someway to send attic Aaron away.)
He could have saved Rachel without doing all the things he did. If saving Rachel was his main objective wouldn't he most likely be the type of guy who wouldn't lock his past self in the attic. Might he have gone back and told Aaron and/or Abe what needed to be done in order to save Rachel. And don't tell me he was trying to keep the timeline from changing.... that makes no sense.
This is all stupid speculation on my part because it has bugged me for a long time, my first viewing of the movie to be exact, what this guy was gonna do next.
Shane must have thought about this as he wrote the movie.
So can you accept the unknowable.? Sure, why not. That's one of the great things about the movie. |
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Aaron
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 26
Location: THE FUTURE, conan?
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| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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the drugging gassing is indeed pretty far out...
they can't trust each other but then later just go past that to working together to never seeing each other again... and have no concern for if THEY'D want to unwillingly be knocked out locked up by themselves?
it makes for a more fun exciting picture but it's just so extreme
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redaer
Joined: 31 May 2005
Posts: 165
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| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| CopyofaCopy wrote: | Since this thread is specualting.... (I like it) Here's a question for anyone out there.
Aaron went back in time twice, at least, to do one or all the things mentioned above. So... what was he going to do once he accomplished his objective? Remember, the original Aaron is the one who time travels twice to start the days over. The other two are "extra Aarons". I'm talking about the original Aaron that has traveled back twice.
Lets say for the sake of simplicity that when Aaron went back the first time, stashed his past self in the attic, he then accomplished what he came back to do. DONE What then?
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His goal is to be Primer. The central conflict of the film is between the two men. Everything else is just extra. |
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CopyofaCopy
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | His goal is to be Primer. The central conflict of the film is between the two men. Everything else is just extra. |
Yes. I agree. And it is a great story.
The point of my rambling.......... What was Aaron going to do after he became Primer? Obviously things got messed up and he had to go back again and start over. But if he hadn't had to start over what was going to happen with the other, extra, Aaron.
I know we can't really answer this with any certainty and I don't mind the unsolved mysteries of the movie. In fact, I think that is what makes the movie so unique.
I don't have any criticism of the movie. BUT this one thing, this "what if", has haunted my viewing of the film. I thought at some point I would see the answer in the film but I don't think it is there. Some would say it is not the point anyway, and I agree.
Some folks were haunted by the Granger Incident. I was haunted by the multiple Aarons. |
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redaer
Joined: 31 May 2005
Posts: 165
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| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| CopyofaCopy wrote: | | Quote: | | His goal is to be Primer. The central conflict of the film is between the two men. Everything else is just extra. |
Yes. I agree. And it is a great story.
The point of my rambling.......... What was Aaron going to do after he became Primer? Obviously things got messed up and he had to go back again and start over. But if he hadn't had to start over what was going to happen with the other, extra, Aaron.
I know we can't really answer this with any certainty and I don't mind the unsolved mysteries of the movie. In fact, I think that is what makes the movie so unique.
I don't have any criticism of the movie. BUT this one thing, this "what if", has haunted my viewing of the film. I thought at some point I would see the answer in the film but I don't think it is there. Some would say it is not the point anyway, and I agree.
Some folks were haunted by the Granger Incident. I was haunted by the multiple Aarons. |
Maybe I'm not understanding your question, but..
I don't think he (Aaron) CAN be Primer, at least not for very long. What the movie alludes to at the end is that the battle between Abe and Aaron is ever growing and, presumably, non-ending. Aaron builds a bigger box, and at some point, we assume Abe will discover it (and in fact, if you go with my "Meta-Abe" theory, he has already discovered it and the movie is his documentation of the facts), so Abe will then up the ante and build his own "livable" box, document a time-line (the movie; thereby verifying it's existence), etc, etc.
The men are caught in a non-ending hell, of their own making....
So what's Aaron going to do? He's going to lose whatever he has left of his sanity... |
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CopyofaCopy
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Maybe I'm not understanding your question, but..
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I appreciate your effort in trying to answer my question but I don't think it can be answered.
I'm not asking why, how or when Aaron did what he did. My question is about WHAT he did.
Again, to put it in the simpliest terms I can think of.......... Aaron went back in time and locked his drugged past self in the attic and then took over the timeline. Forget about how many times Aaron did this or why he did this or how the movie ended with Abe's timeline front and center. (temporary as it may have been)
When Aaron decided, the first time, to go back and take over the timeline what was he ultimately planning to do about there being two Aaron's in the world? That is as simple as I can make it.
I can think of many possible scenerios that might answer this but it is all speculation. Like I said, I don't think it has an answer from the events we see in the movie.
The reason this has bugged me is because there is a timeline we see in the movie where Aaron keeps attic Aaron locked up for several days. What was he going to do with the Aaron in the attic?
The question never has to be answered because Abe re-boots the whole thing after the Granger incident but I have never stopped asking myself this question. |
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vode
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 323
Location: Hampton, UK
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| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| CopyofaCopy wrote: | | What was he going to do with the Aaron in the attic? |
Sooner or later this was a situation that would have had to be resolved one way or another. In the final scenes of the film we see Aaron in the attic escape on his own, so presumably when he was kept in there for days his captor must have been re-drugging him daily. That suggests that it might have only taken some change in the daily routine to give Aaron in the attic a chance to escape.
Maybe going to punch Platts was the event that disrupted the daily re-drugging, and maybe Aaron escaped from the attic in the future from which the Granger double returned. Pure speculation, for all we know he could have just as easily been dead by that point, but I like the idea that Aaron may have escaped, contacted Granger and then the two of them were involved in a fight with the other Aarons. |
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Aaron
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 26
Location: THE FUTURE, conan?
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| Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:23 am Post subject: |
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there's obviously not much concern to be drugging yourself and locking yourself up... if you can't trust YOU who the hell can you!
hell why drug them and not just kill them? it's not like it matters... but committing your doubles death (suicide?) is pretty hardcore...
but yeah thinking of all 3 aarons... and it would just take one branchoff of one to create even MORE
one thing i don't get... the whole "copy of a copy" thing... they're not really copies are they? that's not really the right word i'd say
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Mort_Subite
Joined: 15 Oct 2006
Posts: 3
Location: Portland OR
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| Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| CopyofaCopy wrote: |
Lets say for the sake of simplicity that when Aaron went back the first time, stashed his past self in the attic, he then accomplished what he came back to do. DONE What then?
Was he going to keep his other self locked up while he gets rich with Abe and then disappear with the money? Let his attic self come to and say to everyone, "what the heck happened." Maybe.
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perhaps at this point it was an ethical debate for Aaron... we see scenes of Aaron blatantly killing his other selves, but this first one is put in the attic... why? perhaps because he hadnt yet resigned himself to murder at this point...
M.
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CopyofaCopy
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | we see scenes of Aaron blatantly killing his other selves, but this first one is put in the attic... |
Which movie are you refering to? When exactly in the movie did Aaron kill anyone? Perhaps you'll see this differently with another viewing. |
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