PrimerMovie.com

[MBison]

After many, many viewings and much discussion on this forum, here's my version of Primer's events. I break this down in "timelines". I hope this helps some that are confused, though most posters know everything that is here.

ORIGINAL TIMELINE (never seen in the film)

1: Abe discovers what the box does.

2: Abe builds failsafe machine and turns it on.

3: Abe builds a "general usage" box and uses it.

4: Abe finds Aaron on the park bench and tells him about the box. Aaron has no earpiece. A second general usage box is made.

5: That night, Robert has a birthday party where Rachel's ex-boyfriend pulls out a shotgun. Abe and Aaron were not at the party.

6: Abe and Aaron likely do some stock market stuff, though you never know for sure.

7: At some point in the original timeline, Aaron discovers the failsafe hidden by Abe. He's angry that Abe could reset the timeline and, in essence, control Aaron's reality.

8: Aaron takes one of the general usage boxes and folds it up into the failsafe. Upon exiting the failsafe, he sets up his own presumably in a second locker. There are now two failsafes.

TIMELINE 2 (what we see in the film)

1: Aaron2, back via failsafe, goes to original Aaron's home and drugs him and stuffs him in the attic.

2: Abe meets Aaron2 at the park bench. Aaron2 has an earpiece and is recording all conversations. Not sure why an earpiece would be needed for recording but I believe he's just recording at this point.

3: That night, Aaron2 goes to Robert's birthday party. He knows what happens since he was told though he doesn't know exactly how it goes down. He "rushes" the ex-boyfriend. Persumably it wasn't perfectly executed.

4: At this point we see how things progress as this is the bulk of the film.

5: The night Abe wants to take Aaron2 to punch Platz, a Granger double appears. Abe panics as they have no idea how he learned about the boxes.

6: Abe decides to use the failsafe. Aaron2 uses his own failsafe.

TIMELINE 3

1: Aaron3, back via failsafe, goes to original Aaron's home. Aaron2 was already there to drug the original Aaron and stuffs him in the attic. Aaron3 encounters Aaron2 (from timeline1) and gets beat up by him. But Aaron3 explains to Aaron2 that he's already done the recordings and already done the party, so he's better equipped. Aaron2 leaves.

2: Abe2, back via failsafe, gases original Abe and stuffs him in a closet.

3: Abe2 meets Aaron3 at the park bench. Aaron3 has the earpiece and the recorded conversations. Abe2 faints from exhaustion as Aaron3 is responding improperly based on the recordings.

4: Aaron3 explains to Abe2 what's happened.

5: Aaron3 and Abe2 go to the party and Aaron3 does it "better".

6: Aaron3 leaves, Abe2 sticks around to try and prevent Abe and Aaron from finishing the general usage boxes.

7: Aaron2 calls Aaron to tell him everything that has happened so far, presumably so he can get one up on Abe and Abe2 and gain the power he desires.

8: Aaron2 or Aaron3 (never revealed) are shown perhaps constructing a bigger box to feed his power hunger.

The End.

Comments welcome.

[JJS]

Yes, this is exactly my understanding of the movie.

Regarding

[AlexW]

This is exactly my interpretation of events, but there are still a couple of things that bug me and don't seem to fit.

The first is Aaron's response to Abe's side of the conversation in the second park bench scene. He seems to be following along with the recording no matter what. If this was Aaron3, he's already experienced this coversation twice. He should know just by looking at Abe that something is amiss. Abe is behaving very differently from the first park bench scene, yet Aaron follows right along and even answers a question that Abe doesn't even ask. This scene almost seems as if Aaron is following a recording without having actually experienced the event himself, but I can't make this fit with any timeline I've tried to make.

The other detail is something that I didn't notice myself, but was recently posted in another thread. Someone was saying that their only complaint about the movie was the sound, and that they missed an important clue in the background of the scene in which Abe is describing the A and B ends of the machine to Aaron. He said that if you turn the volume up and listen closely, you can hear a few words of the conversation coming through Aaron's earpiece. Now, I don't have a copy of the movie yet, so I can't verify whether this is true, but if it is true then the Aaron we are seeing through most of the movie already has a recording that he's working off of. That would go against the theory (which I was working off of) that the Aaron we see through most of the movie is Aaron2 who is going through the day recording but not listening.

Again, I can't square these things with any timeline I've created yet. Aaron's reaction to Abe at the second park bench could be explained away (he wasn't paying attention, he himself was exhausted at that point, etc.), but if it's true that you can hear the conversation in Aaron's earpiece in the scene where Abe explains the machine to Aaron, then I don't think that fits, and we may have to come up with different timelines.

[AlexW]

OK, I just had a thought, but I haven't really followed it through completely so it may be stupid...

Perhaps who we're seeing on both park bench scenes is Aaron3. Basically, Abe does the park bench with Aaron1 and we don't see that. Aaron1 finds the failsafe and uses it. He (now Aaron2) drugs Aaron1 and starts recording (with or without an earpiece). He goes to the park bench again, and we don't see that. He goes to the party this time and records what happens and maybe interferes, but maybe he doesn't (he may just be recording so that he can be "prescient" when he decides to act).

At some point before Abe uses the failsafe, but after the Granger incident, Aaron uses his failsafe again. He (now Aaron3) loses to Aaron2, but is the one who stays. He is now following the script, so to speak, and is listening to the recording and following along. This is who we see at both park bench scenes.

As I think about it more, the Aaron on the park bench must be the same Aaron if we are following Abe's timeline in the movie. When Abe uses the failsafe, he comes out after Aaron3 (due to the set up time involved with replacing Abe's failsafe with the one that was brought back with Aaron). So the park bench happens twice for Abe, and both times with the same Aaron (Aaron3?).

The problem with this is that Aaron2 on the voiceover seems to know about Abe's use of the failsafe and the discussion they had. Perhaps he just knows it is inevitable that Abe will use the failsafe and that this is what would happen. He does seem to shift his language a little ("he would have wanted to know...'how?'" vs. saying "he wanted to know...'how?'"). Perhaps he's speculating on the voiceover, and we're seeing what actually happened.

[MBison]

Actually I did make one error. Aaron3 doesn't drug Aaron.. Aaron2 still drugs Aaron, Aaron3 just shows up in Timeline 3.

[psykomakia]

[matrixgenius]

How about the almighty line in the movie when Abe asks Aaron if he is OK to drive after witnessing Abe's double.
Aaron says "I remember my first time through" even though he hasn't been in the box yet - LOL
Then he tries to cover it up by saying Ya I should just go back to work

[JJS]

[lostatlimbo]

also - consider that Aaron expects Abe to follow a certain script and when he doesn't, he knows something is amiss.

ad-libbing the conversation would not have worked for him, because Abe had altered the course of the day already.

perhaps, he just spilled the beans cause he knew that he had lost control of the situation at that point.

[quote="psykomakia"]

[Moviegirl]

[vode]

[Rob Y]

[junior]

MBison,

I like your recap of timelines but something is off.

In your Original Timeline #4, it should be Abe2, not Abe;
and in Timelne 2 #2, it should be Abe2, not Abe.

In both cases, you will remember that when we first see Abe looking down from the window and then walking up to Aaron(2or3), it is Abe2, not Abe. It is Abe2 because Abe is in his car driving to or is already at the hotel when Abe2 approaches Aaron(2or3) at the park bench.

junior

[renn]

Many thanks to MBison for his explanation!

I just watched Primer for the first time last night. Didn't get it the first time and even thought about stopping the movie halfway through. By the end of the first viewing I was intrigued and more than a little frustrated that I couldn't get it. So I immediately watched it again with the Director's commentary turned on. (My girlfriend in the other room was asking me: "umm, you're watching it again? )

A few more things "clicked" on the second viewing, but I could tell I wasn't really grasping it. So I decided to do some research on the Web today at work. Bingo!

I liked most of what MBison wrote, but I disagreed on a few points (e.g. I believe it's Aaron3 you see in the last hangar scene). Partly for my own benefit, partly for the benefit of other readers, I tried to update his version with explicit clarification of which Aaron/Abe was in which scene, as well as quoting from the subtitle rip for key or difficult-to-follow scenes.

Overall, MAN, what a movie! I actually rented this for free from my local library, but I'm now thinking I gotta buy a DVD for my own collection.

Final Note: I did not try to agonize over exactly what each Aaron/Abe was doing each hour of each day (in the box, in the hotel, doing stock trades, at the library, driving, at Aaron's house, ad nauseum..), but rather focus on the time travel and identity aspects, which was what really confounded me the first time I watched the movie. The more I think about it, Shane Carruth did an absolute BANG-UP job on the story, but as some posters have noted, at the end of the day it's only a story, and if I tried to put it under a microscope, I'm fairly confident plot inconsistencies would appear. (Visions of "Wait a minute, Aaron2 couldn't have done that stock trade at 11:07am, because Aaron3 was driving over to the library only 37 minutes later and Aaron1 was on the crapper at his apartment 23 minutes earlier." )

Having said that, if there is a post in here somewhere that actually put together a day-by-day timeline, I'd be most interested to take a peek.

Enjoy, and Comments Welcome!

=====
PRIMER TIMELINE, as compiled by MBison and updated by Renn

ORIGINAL TIMELINE (never seen in the film)

1: Abe1 discovers what the box does.

2: Abe1 builds failsafe machine and turns it on.

3: Abe1 builds a "general usage" box and uses it.

4: Abe1 finds Aaron1 on the park bench and tells him about the box. Aaron1 has no earpiece. A second general usage box is made.

5: That night, Robert has a birthday party where Rachel's ex-boyfriend pulls out a shotgun. Abe and Aaron were not at the party.

6: Abe1 and Aaron1 likely do some stock market stuff, though you never know for sure.

7: At some point in the original timeline, Aaron1 discovers the failsafe hidden by Abe1. He's angry that Abe1 could reset the timeline and, in essence, control Aaron1's reality.

General Note: Aaron2 is the narrator throughout the movie.

[Aaron2 recalling his emotions as Aaron1 learning of the failsafe box]
Aaron2: this is what I know for sure.
Aaron2: the worst thing in the world is to know that the moment you are experiencing...
Aaron2: has already been defined that this is the second...
Aaron2: or third time through or whatever.

8: Aaron1 takes one of the general usage boxes and folds it up into the failsafe. He then uses the failsafe, becoming Aaron2. Upon exiting the failsafe, he sets up his own presumably in a second locker. There are now two failsafes.

TIMELINE 2

1: Aaron2, back via failsafe, goes to original Aaron1's home and drugs him and stuffs him in the attic.

2: Abe1 meets Aaron2 at the park bench. Aaron2 has an earpiece and is recording all conversations.

3: That night, Aaron2 goes to Robert's birthday party. He knows what happens since he was told though he doesn't know exactly how it goes down. He "rushes" the ex-boyfriend. Presumably it wasn't perfectly executed.

Aaron3 recalling first incident of "rushing" ex-boyfriend as Aaron2

Abe2: He doesn't fire?
Aaron3: No. He didn't fire.
Abe2: He never fires?
Abe2: Not Even when you rushed him?
Aaron3: No. He didn't.
Aaron3: He didn't the time I was [Aaron2] when I rushed him.
Aaron3: And from what Robert tells you he didn't do it tonight.
Aaron3: He doesn't have the nerve. We know everything.

4: At this point we see how things progress as this is the bulk of the film.

5: The night Abe1 wants to take Aaron2 to punch Platz, a Granger double appears. Abe1 panics as they have no idea how he learned about the boxes.

6: Abe1 decides to use the failsafe, becoming Abe2. Aaron2 uses his own failsafe, becoming Aaron3.

TIMELINE 3

1: Aaron3, back via failsafe, goes to original Aaron1's home. Aaron2 had already drugged the original Aaron1 and stuffed him in the attic. Aaron3 encounters Aaron2 and gets beat up by him. But Aaron3 explains to Aaron2 that he's already done the recordings and already done the party, so he's better equipped. Aaron2 agrees to leave.

2. Aaron2 leaves to continue his day. At some point during the day Aaron2 calls Abe1 or Aaron1 (could be either) to relate the phone conversation which forms the narration of the movie. The primary purpose of the conversation is to counteract Abe2’s stated intent to sabotage the invention of the time machine, and maintain a reality line where it was successfully invented. At the end of his day, Aaron2 uses the failsafe to become Aaron3 as noted in TIMELINE 2.

Aaron 2: “And that's where I would have entered the story.”
Aaron 2: “Or exited depending on your reference.”
Aaron 2: “Because when [Aaron3] came back the second time it wasn't so easy.”
Aaron 2: “[Aaron3] wasn't expecting me to put up a fight.”
Aaron 2: “And by that time [Aaron3] was too exhausted to take me.”
Aaron 2: “But for reasons that are only evident to me now...”
Aaron 2: “I understood that [Aaron3] simply wanted it more.”
Aaron 2: “That [Aaron3] just had more invested. So I left.”
Aaron 2: “[Aaron 3] had already performed the task as I had intended to...”
Aaron 2: “of recording the conversations of the day just in case.”
Aaron 2: “Through that earpiece [Aaron 3] had a three-second lead on the world.”

3: Abe2, back via failsafe, gases the original Abe1 and stuffs him in a closet.

4: Abe2 meets Aaron3 at the park bench. Aaron3 has the earpiece and the recorded conversations. Abe2 faints from exhaustion as Aaron3 is responding improperly based on the recordings.

5: Aaron3 explains to Abe2 what has happened.

6: Aaron3 and Abe2 go to the party and Aaron3 attempts to do it "better". Note that several iterations may have been required, leading to potential repetition TIMELINES 3.1, 3.2, etc.

Aaron2: “I can tell you with certainty what I did that night when it was my turn.”
Aaron2: “But I think it would do little good because what the world remembers...”
Aaron2: “the actuality the last revision is what counts apparently.”
Aaron2: “So how many times did it take [Aaron3]...”
Aaron2: “as he cycled through the same conversations...”
Aaron2: “lip-synching trivia over and over?”
Aaron2: “How many times would it take before he got it right?”
Aaron2: “Three? Four?”
Aaron2: “Twenty?”

7: After the “successful” resolution of the party situation, Aaron3 and Abe2 are shown having a conversation at the airport. Aaron3 wants to travel to a foreign country and presumably continue experiments with the time machine. Abe2 disagrees and states his intent to sabotage the original invention efforts of Abe1/Aaron1. Abe2 furthermore warns Aaron3 to stay away from Abe1, Aaron1, and Aaron1’s family.

Aaron3: I know that things are bad okay?
Aaron3: I know that you don't agree with what I've done.
Aaron3: I know that you're upset.
Aaron3: And to be honest I'm not too happy with you either right now.
Aaron3: But you know that this is going to pass. Let's just go.
Aaron3: Let's go somewhere where we don't speak the language.
Abe2: Aaron we don't have the money back here...
Abe2: and we'd have to steal our own passports.
Aaron3: Money? We'll make money.
Aaron3: They have sports betting in Vegas. March Madness.
Aaron3: We'll make enough in one night to finance a thousand vacations.
Aaron3: Passports. You know they're not using theirs anyways.
Aaron3: Now come on. I'm thinking Star City.
Aaron3: Check out the cosmonaut training grounds.
Abe2: I'm staying here.
Aaron3: Why?
Aaron3: they'll be building their own boxes in another day.
Aaron3: And yours [Abe1] already knows what they've built.
Aaron3: You're not going to be able to watch them forever.
Abe2: “the box [Abe1] is building won't work.”
Abe2: “He's got it wired wrong.”
Aaron3: “And if they fix that...”
Abe2: “I'll start actually taking pieces out of it. It's just a gimmick.”
Abe2: “It doesn't work anymore.”
Abe2: “Your double will say they have to move on to something else.”
Abe2: And mine will agree. They're friends.
Aaron3: You're staying? Why?
Aaron3: Why? Let's see why would Abe stay?
Aaron3: What possible reason could there be to be here?
Aaron3: I guess that it just won't go back far enough will it?
Aaron3: Tell you what why don't you take Kara and Lauren and put them in the box...
Aaron3: and then you and Aaron can each keep a set and you can stop feeding off it.
Abe2: Don't come back.
Aaron3: you can each keep a set and a hemisphere.
Abe2: there hasn't been a reason to show you what I'm capable of...
Abe2: but I'm telling this you now. Go out there.
Abe2: Do whatever the hell you want. there's no way in the world I can stop you.
Abe2: But don't come back here...
Abe2: and don't come near them.
Abe2: Any of them.

8: Aaron3 is shown constructing a bigger box, for reasons the director intentionally leaves to the audience’s imagination.

The reason we can conclude this is Aaron3 is that: (i) the figure in the last scene is logically the person who “went somewhere where he doesn’t speak the language”, (ii) we know the Abe speaking in that scene is Abe2, and (iii) the only Aaron to interact with Abe2 was Aaron3.

Aaron2 effectively exits the story per the explanation in TIMELINE 3, item #2.

The End.

[redaer]

Really, really well done, Renn. Using lines from the movie is the perfect way to support any theory.

Building the box at the end (to me at least) seems pretty obvious. Neither of them can go back beyond a certain point, but as far as we see in the movie, they ARE limited by the amount of time they can spend in the box.

To be able to live in a box for months, even years would be, in essence, control.

Unless, of course, someone blows your cover and destroys the box while you're in it.